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[nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

  • 1.  [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 01:38:00 PM
    IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting
     

    Join: https://teams.microsoft.com/meet/23489514416994?p=Xdkvj5pArBZ6OZu55V

    Meeting ID: 234 895 144 169 94

    Passcode: t4EU35xz


    Need help? | System reference

    Dial in by phone

    +1 929-229-5913,,515731750# United States, New York City

    Find a local number

    Phone conference ID: 515 731 750#

    ATIS Procedural Notices: Participants must read the procedural notices regarding the development of ATIS deliverables.



  • 2.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 02:08:00 PM
    Why was there was no report on this activity at the IPNNI?

    NOTHING AGREED in this group exists until it is brought into the IPNNI

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 3.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 02:40:00 PM
    Hi Martin,

    The subgroup wasn't ready to report anything into the last IPNNI meeting, but very likely are making progress on a new document we can make a formal contribution into the next IPNNI meeting.

    -Chris





  • 4.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 02:57:00 PM

    I'll add that the next meeting is scheduled for noon ET on Friday, April 10th for anyone interested and wants to learn first-hand what is being reviewed and discussed.

     

    Pierce

     






  • 5.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 10:28:00 PM
    Chris,

    Curious but no wireless  participants

    So what is the scope

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&TCurio

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 6.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 10:31:00 PM
    Martin:

    There have been wireless participants joining our calls while this has been under discussion. This is bigger than just business messaging, but more messaging in general and network folks from mobile carriers have been participating.

    - Tina





  • 7.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 10:38:00 PM
    Not recently, more important this subgroup needs to report to IPNNI, please get take

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 8.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 12:51:00 AM

    Hi Martin,

     

    T-Mobile, Verizon, and AT&T all had representation at today's meeting.  And for what it is worth, although he's not with a wireless carrier,  I noticed Ken Carlberg, CTO in the Public Safety & Homeland Security Bureau, FCC, has also been attending the last couple of meetings.

     

    You seem very concerned about something, and you're not typically a pedant, and although we've been working together for ~13 years, I don't understand. Can you please elaborate on your concerns? 

     

    Since you expressed a concern about a meeting report, I'll volunteer a report from my notes, but the meeting was also recorded by Anna Karditzas [ATIS] and that will be better than my notes.

     

    The conversation today was going over a draft "baseline analysis report" on Message Sender Identification submitted by Chris Wendt earlier this week.  Chris opened the meeting after Anna started recording and ran through the patent and anti-trust declarations and announced the attendees.  Chris presented the 1st page of the contribution and opened the discussion for questions or suggestions from the floor.

     

    I started the discussion by encouraging folks to provide feedback to Chris or the subgroup in any way in which they were comfortable, although formalized ATIS contributions against a baseline text were preferred.  I also then expressed 2 concerns I had with the draft analysis Chris had submitted.

     

    I noted first that a primary focus of the analysis is on A2P and impersonation of organizational identity as represented by Telephone Numbers whose provenance cannot be reliably verified.  I argued that TNs are an insufficiently stable organizational identifier because of porting, M&A, number management, etc., and better organization identity identifiers are available. E.g., Legal Entity Identifier (LEI) based on International Standards Organization (ISO) specifications developed from requirements provided by the Global Legal Entity Identifier Foundation (GLEIF) in Basel, Switzerland established by the Financial Stability Board (FSB) of the G20 after the 2008 global financial crisis.

     

    Secondly, I noted that while I agree it is entirely sensible to focus on what the industry, and specifically, the IP-NNI might do to develop solutions for the well-established challenges of verifiable message sender identity end-to-end, we must not forget that the final analysis of the trustworthiness of a message is the analysis done by the message recipient themselves, and that an authorized identifier isn't going to be as meaningful and helpful as a human-understandable identity.  i.e., we must include a focus on what can processes and technology make available directly in the display for consumers, especially the most vulnerable members of the community, to help them avoid being impacted by message sender impersonation.

     

    Chris thanked me for my comments and acknowledged the technical concerns but also emphasized the focus of the messaging fraud analysis is not to develop solutions but instead to decide if there is something the ATIS/SIP Forum IP-NNI can or should contribute to the industry's efforts to combat message sender impersonation mainly because of the extensive experience in developing PKI technology specific to telecommunications, and especially communications signaled using SIP protocol. (As you know, a portion of SMS/MMS message path is SIP, and RCS/RBM is entirely SIP.)

     

    Dr. Brad Reaves of North Carolina State University offered to provide a contribution to assist the analysis by presenting messaging threat vector intelligence data they've gathered from research.

     

    Stephanie Lashley with T-Mobile expressed her concern that one of the things they would like to have available to them is usage history of Telephone Numbers to help them better evaluate TN usage patterns and assess risks accordingly.

     

    Sarah Delphey of Bandwidth also made comments that sparked my memory about consumer message recipients, and I started making notes and missed most of what she said unfortunately.  Thankfully, the meeting was recorded so I (and everyone) can go back and re-listen to Sarah.

     

    Rich Shockey, Chairman of the SIP Forum also volunteered that he had written an informal memorandum to the subgroup outlining his thoughts on the message sender impersonation crisis.

     

    There may have been other discussion and speakers, but my notes don't show it.  I also know I did not manage a complete list of attendees.  E.g., I thought I also saw Yi Jing from Verizon, but I'm not sure.

     

    That pretty much summarizes the discussion.  We did not meet for the entire hour.  We scheduled the next meeting for noon ET on Friday, April 10th, and then Chris adjourned the meeting.

     

    Attendees I noted:

     

    Anna Karditzas [ATIS]

    Jackie Wohlgemuth [ATIS]

    Brent Struthers [ATIS]

    Chris Wendt [Somos]

    Alec Fenichel [TransNexus]

    Alyssia S. [Bandwidth]

    Sarah Delphey [Bandwidth]

    Brad Reaves [NCSU]

    Terri Brooks [T-Mobile]

    Clark Whitten [Cox]

    David Casem [Telnyx]

    Deb Tucker [Verizon]

    Joe Dechant [TNS]

    Glenn Clepper (Charter)

    Jonathan Vimont [Sinch]

    Julie Fowler [First Orion]

    Kenneth Carlberg [FCC]

    Kevin Burns [Charter]

    Mary Barnes [TransUnion]

    Matt Timmerman [TNS (fka iconectiv)]

    Pierce Gorman [Numeracle]

    Sam Etler [Numeracle]

    Charles Musgrove [unk]

    Howard Lang [AT&T]

     

    Hope this helps.

     

    Best regards,

     

     

    Pierce Gorman
    Distinguished Member of the Technical Staff
    Pierce.Gorman@numeracle.com

    Logo.png

    Empowering Calls with
    Identity Management
     

     






  • 9.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 12:46:00 PM
    Pierce,

    I spoke to Anna and she there was not a wireless carrier.

    I will get the attendance list on Monday.

    Regards,

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 10.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 12:54:00 PM
    I don't know everybody's roles in their respective companies but I can provide screen shots of attendance in the Participant list and Chat. The problem is the list grows and I don't always capture new arrivals.

    T-Mobile had 2 people there and they are strictly a wireless carrier and I'm not sure but maybe now the largest by subscriber count, towers, et cetera.

    Pierce 

    Sent from my Galaxy





  • 11.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 01:09:00 PM
    Please provide the screen shots

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standardspleas

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 12.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 01:10:00 PM
    No



    Sent from my Galaxy





  • 13.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 01:13:00 PM

    Sorry, hit <send> too soon.  Was on my mobile and meant to say, "Not from my mobile device, I need to get to my PC."

     

    Here you go.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Pierce Gorman
    Distinguished Member of the Technical Staff
    Pierce.Gorman@numeracle.com

    Logo.png

    Empowering Calls with
    Identity Management
     

     






  • 14.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 01:16:00 PM
    Thank you

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 15.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 02:24:00 PM

     

    Martin ..on thing that struck me on the messaging call was there was not a lot of discussion of RCS Business Messaging.

     

     

    Richard Shockey

    Shockey Consulting LLC

    Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

    www.shockey.us

    www.sipforum.org

    richard<at>shockey.us

    Skype-Linkedin-Facebook –Twitter  rshockey101

    PSTN +1 703-593-2683

     

     






  • 16.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-28-2026 02:26:00 PM

     

    And for your amusement...

     

    https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/calling-epstein-island-journalists-phoning-white-house-get-quite-the-surprise/

     

     

     

    Richard Shockey

    Shockey Consulting LLC

    Chairman of the Board SIP Forum

    www.shockey.us

    www.sipforum.org

    richard<at>shockey.us

    Skype-Linkedin-Facebook –Twitter  rshockey101

    PSTN +1 703-593-2683

     

     






  • 17.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-30-2026 09:05:00 AM

    Hi Martin, all,

     

    Apologies for my miscommunication – as previously stated by others, there was wireless carrier representation on the call. Please see the attendance list below.

     

    Name

    Company

    Email

    1.       Martin Dolly (IP-NNI TF Co-Chair)

    AT&T

    md3135@att.com

    2.       Chris Wendt (IP-NNI TF Co-Chair)

    Somos

    cwendt@somos.com

    3.       Lisa Marie Maxson

    10x People

    lisamarie@10xpeople.com

    4.       Yanyan Liu

    Alianza

    yanyan.liu@alianza.com

    5.       Howard Lang

    AT&T

    hl1539@att.com

    6.       Sarah Delphey

    Bandwidth

    sdelphey@bandwidth.com

    7.       Alyssia Summers

    Bandwidth

    asummers@bandwidth.com

    8.       Kevin Burns

    Charter Communications

    kevin.burns@charter.com

    9.       Glenn Clepper

    Charter Communications

    glenn.clepper@charter.com

    10.   Richard Wikoff

    Comcast

    Richard_Wikoff@comcast.com

    11.   Clark Whitten

    Cox Communications

    clark.whitten@cox.com

    12.   Julie Sara Fowler

    First Orion

    jfowler@firstorion.com

    13.   Mike Hamilton

    InCharge Systems

    mikehamilton@inchargesys.com

    14.   Virg Bodyfelt

    Infobip

    Virg.Bodyfelt@infobip.com

    15.   Philip Linse

    Lumen

    philip.linse@lumen.com

    16.   David Tschirhart

    Lumen

    david.tschirhart@lumen.com

    17.   Bill Scheible

    MITRE

    wgscheib@gmail.com

    18.   P.J. Louis

    NECA

    pjlouis@neca.org

    19.   Sam Etler

    Numeracle

    sam.etler@numeracle.com

    20.   Pierce Gorman

    Numeracle

    pierce.gorman@numeracle.com

    21.   Michael Stovenour

    Ribbon Communications

    mstovenour@rbbn.com

    22.   Doug Bellows

    Sinch

    doug.bellows@inteliquent.com

    23.   Jonathan Vimont

    Sinch

    Jonathan.Vimont@sinch.com

    24.   Richard Shockey

    SIP Forum

    richard@shockey.us

    25.   David Hancock

    Somos

    dhancock@somos.com

    26.   Victoria Cook

    T-Mobile

    victoria.cook@t-mobile.com

    27.   Homer Filart

    T-Mobile

    Homer.Filart@t-mobile.com

    28.   Sarah Halko

    TNS

    shalko@tnsi.com

    29.   Connie Hartman

    TNS

    chartman@tnsi.com

    30.   Alec Fenichel

    TransNexus

    alec.fenichel@transnexus.com

    31.   Mary Barnes

    TransUnion

    mary.barnes@transunion.com

    32.   Mark Hilton

    Verizon

    mark.hilton@verizon.com

    33.   Yi Jing

    Verizon

    yi.jing@verizonwireless.com

    34.   Matt Nickols

    Verizon

    matt.nickols@verizon.com

    35.   Anna Karditzas

    ATIS

    akarditzas@atis.org

    36.   Ian Deakin

    ATIS

    ideakin@atis.org

    37.   Tom Goode

    ATIS

    tgoode@atis.org

    38.   Jo Seibel

    ATIS

    jseibel@atis.org

    39.   Kate Storm

    ATIS

    kstorm@atis.org

    40.   Brent Struthers

    ATIS

    bstruthers@atis.org

    41.   Jackie Wohlgemuth

    ATIS

    jwohlgemuth@atis.org

    42.   Linda Vandeloop

    ATIS

    lvandeloop@atis.org

     

     

    Anna Karditzas (she/her)

    Manager - Global Standards

    202-434-8843

    akarditzas@atis.org

     

     






  • 18.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-30-2026 11:38:00 AM
    The is the IPNNI meeting itself

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical Staff

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 19.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-30-2026 10:48:00 AM

    Apologies! That was the IP-NNI attendance list from 3/26. Below is the messaging subgroup attendance list.

     

    2. Participants

    Name

    Anna Karditzas (ATIS)

    Kenneth Carlberg (External)

    Richard Shockey

    Stephanie Lashley (Unverified)

    Jackie Wohlgemuth (ATIS)

    Chris Wendt (External)

    Pierce Gorman (External)

    Sarah Delphey (Bandwidth) (Unverified)

    Sam Etler (External)

    Louis, PJ

    MUSGROVE, CHARLES P

    Timmermann, Matthew L

    David Casem (Unverified)

    Deb Tucker - Verizon (Unverified)

    Julie Fowler (External)

    Alec Fenichel

    Brooks, Terri

    Brad Reaves (External)

    Kevin Burns (Charter) (Unverified)

    Glenn Clepper (Charter) (Unverified)

    Whitten, Clark (CCI-Atlanta)

    Barnes, Mary

    Jonathan Vimont

    Alyssia S. (Bandwidth) (Unverified)

    Glenn Clepper (Charter) (Unverified)

    LANG, HOWARD L

    Dechant, Joe (External)

     

     

    Anna Karditzas (she/her)

    Manager - Global Standards

    202-434-8843

    akarditzas@atis.org

     

     






  • 20.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-27-2026 10:51:00 PM
    No progress is a report

    Martin C Dolly

    AT&T

    Lead Member of Technical StaffN

    Government & Services Standards

    +1 609 903 3360






  • 21.  RE: [nni] IP-NNI TF Messaging Subgroup Meeting

    Posted 03-30-2026 08:26:00 AM
    Hi Martin,  

    Sorry, I was going by the rule that we are contribution driven and we didn't have a contribution to discuss.  We will have one for the next meeting to report our progress.

    -Chris